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October 07, 2011

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Mount Everest

That was a couple of expensive biscuits you ate then! Hope you enjoyed them.

Colin

Mount Everest The British Story
http://www.everest1953.co.uk

Pete Poston

Hello Jake,
The excellent condition of those biscuits at 8300m (and other artifacts) is clear evidence that the camera film has also been preserved high in the cold thin air, despite recent claims to the contrary.
Best always,
Pete

Jake Norton

Thanks Colin. Expensive biscuits for sure!

Jake Norton

Hi Pete,

Definitely well preserved! Same as all the other items I found in that camp, and the others (1924 camp 6, 1938 high camp, etc.). From my experience, everything above 8000 meters stays pretty well preserved. I wasn't aware that people are speculating about the condition of the camera. My hunch is that it'd be in good shape, with big question being, as always, if it was broken or not in a fall.

Hope you are well!

Philip Summers

Always the ideological and personal attack dog aren't you Poston!.
You never change!.

Poston is referring to my paper published about a year ago now that 'hit for six' the long absurd notion that Holzel and his 'posse of gunslingers' have been peddling vis a' vis the viable vestpocket film still up there presumably on Irvine.

I've long been uneasy about this notion, but had more important things to look at, until I got fed up with Holzel's increasingly arrogant claims and tendentious 'trophy hunting' too and looked into the matter objectively (you know, that which Holzel claims to do but is really just a guise for the propagation of his own opinions masquerading as 'reason').

After consulting with a respected Antarctic photographer and scientist here in Australia who still likes to use film and discussing the claims and conditions with him, I found that the entire premise is clearly absurd as I long feared with the preponderous about of rust on much of Mallory's artefacts (metal mainly), clearly indicating oxidation by the elements over time (with even tiny amounts of condensation acting as an agent for oxidation) with concomitant effects on any of the old volatile film composed of reactive compounds on old substrates prone to react unfavourably to moisture laden air seeming into any interstities of the old camera which is unlikely sealed to the outside.
The Antarctic is certainly 'drier' than over 8000m on Everest and photographers still have to be careful there when using film photography lest moisture seep inside, even with humidity down to a few percent down there!.
Thus the many rusted metal artefacts on Mallory bear testiment to the implicit state of any camera on Irvine and its even more fragile film within.
Thus prospects for the film are essentially nil.
You can read my article on Colin Wallace's worthy website still for any interested parties on this issue.

Old biscuits are rather different to volatile camera film so its important not to confuse the issue.

A friend of mine observed that this camera viability issue is now a reflection of almost a religious belief (seeking shortcuts) of some people in this area, as Everest is like a mirror to the interlocutor.
Too true.
God only knows what old Poston's depiction is for his mirror projection, at best the image may be the first time in years his girth has reduced to reasonable levels, like in some carnival hall of mirrors.

Pete Poston

Hi Jake,

It's amazing how well preserved everything is up there. I'm sure many groups will keep searching for the camera and the film.

I was hiking my butt off in Colorado this summer, and thought about dropping by Boulder but I reckon you weren't there.

Have you ever hiked in the La Plata mountains outside of Durango? It doesn't get much prettier than that! And there's even some technical stuff, but the rock tends to be very loose.

Cheers,
Pete

The Mystery of Mallory and Irvine's Fate
http://www.wou.edu/poston/everest

True Religion Outlet

Our daughter and son-in-law are conscientious about offering three full meals each day with snacks. It is amazing to witness the change in behavior if/when we're a bit late with snacks, especially for our grandson: less helpful behaviors begin to ramp up. Within minutes of consuming the needed snack (cheese, nuts, cooked grains--brown rice, couscous, etc) his jovial, playful self returns.


Philip Summers

I and most people in this field have long thought Poston that not only are you a thuggish bigot and cowardly bully and as helpful in this Everest research area as a chocolate radiator cap on a car engine, but it seems you're stubborn too.

The recoverable camera film 'notion' promoted by Holzel and any other fools, stupid enough to believe in this claptrap are simply deluding themselves.

http://www.everest1953.co.uk/MallorysCamera.php

Proffers a detailed technical counter argument that demonstrates that the entire notion of the camera is and always has been a canard.
Only those simpletons like bigotted simpletons like Poston who suffer from persistant cognitive dissonance, still 'believe' in this camera film notion as an article of faith.
The truth is the entire notion was always flawed from the very beginning, perpetuated by the blind who will not see and those entangled in their own belief system unable to face reality properly.

Pete Poston

Jake - I'm really sorry about Phil's crazy remarks appearing on your blog. I don't care what he says about me, but his posts are disrespectful to you and it's my fault. With tremendous respect and my best wishes always,
Pete

Ralph Wondraschek

Phil,

regarding the possibility of the Mallory/Irvine film emulsion having been preserved intact: why not look at another historical occurance similar to this:

the succesfull retrieval, and developement procedure of the film emulsion of the Andrée, Strindberg and Fraenkel expedition.
The film was stored in arctic weather conditions (with a relative high percentage of moisture) from 1897 to 1933 (when the three dead bodies were discovered on Kvitö Island), yet still delivered perfect pictures after it's succesful developement after such a long time.

Would you care to explain why the case of the mallory/irvine film would be different ?

And no, this old emulsion is NOT sensitive to cosmic radiation, so no problem with that.

Jake Norton

Ralph, thanks for your comment and the interesting post. I had heard about an old camera and film being discovered in the Arctic, but did not know the details.

Thanks for sharing - it's always been my thought that, if found, the camera would hold many answers.

Thanks again, and have a great day!

-Jake

Ralph Wondraschek

Jake,

thanks for your kind comments.

Please refer to http://www.biad.bcu.ac.uk/research/rti/riadm/issue6/issue%206.pdf
for more information of the recovery and developement of the Andrée/Strindberg/Fraenkel film rolls.

Regards,

Ralph

Pete Poston

Ralph,
Your last link doesn't allow access.
Regards,
Pete

http://www.wou.edu/poston/everest

Ralph Wondraschek
Pete Poston

Got it! Thanks. -Pete

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